The Value of Human Life

[EJA]

Sorry if this isn't in the right forum, I wasn't sure. I'm not posting this to try and look "special" or get attention (I really hate talking about myself; I'm just using myself as an example here), but I'm really curious as to how people view the value of human lives - or more specifically, their own life versus others. I'll start out by explaining myself...

I value my life over all others and would betray even my closest friends and family if it meant that I would better my own situation and succeed easier/faster/farther/etc. I have no sense of loyalty. Because of this, I don't like to get close to people (I have friends who are very close to me, but I never let them into my true thoughts; I like to keep them at a distance.)

I don't understand how people can make sacrifices for others or die for their country in a war, etc. I'd never, EVER sacrifice my life just for ANYTHING - not for my friends, my family, my country, anything. Even if it meant being a traitor, I'd attempt to live at all costs, no matter what. I would steal (and have stolen) if it meant I could get what I want. I would give up the lives of ten strangers if it meant I could continue living normally.

Although I care about other people, I just care about myself more.

Is this selfish? Wrong? Normal? How much do you guys value your life compared to how you value others? Is anyone else like this?

EDIT: I'm not a terrible person, sorry if I come off like that. I mean..I volunteer at soup kitchens once in a while and I give money to the poor, all that stuff. But like...only if it won't hurt me. You know what I mean?

[Silverblue]

Eh, in the past I've considered killing myself because it didn't seem as if I was helping other people at that point in my life. I've certainly endangered myself in order to help others, several times. Nothing serious or important, just things like interfering in fist fights or grabbing people when they were about to step on snakes.

The only value my life has is in how it raises the existence of others. I don't know. I support a child through World Vision - I could certainly use the money, but she needs it to attend school and get a decent chance in life. This isn't altruism, it's simply how my life is.

[Kass-ID]

Well I'll wiggle my way in between you two
I will do anything and everything for those that I love. Fight, die, give up everything and do anything to keep them, well, happy and safe.
As for strangers, I have a general sense of respect, but if they are after what I want I will compete and compete hard. At that point I'm looking out for me and mine. You can worry about you and yours.

The only exception to these rules are if the cost vs benefit are way out of balance. For instance I once helped an old man who had fallen in the middle of a busy busy street to the curb and called the police. But it cost me little physical effort and a little bit of time to possibly save his life. Conversely I wouldn't kill someone to get my wife a candy bar.

But if all else is equal, I always look out for those closest to me first, foremost and always.

[EJA]

@Silver: I think that's part of the reason I am the way I am now - I used to be suicidal and almost killed myself once, but I'm not going to get into that. That's really great you do stuff like World Vision and such.

@read0rd1e: I agree with what you're saying. I would not kill anyone over a candy bar, but I'd kill someone if it meant I would be saved. Likewise, I'd kill a random stranger if it meant a close friend could be saved. Is this making sense? And of course some physical effort + time can certainly be used up if it meant saving someone's life.

But if all else is equal, I always look out for those closest to me first, foremost and always.

I agree completely.

I kind of go by a mental...ranking? Sort of thing?
Me
Friends
Extended family
Strangers

I have yet to determine where my immediate family is placed on this list.

[Shadow Dragon]

I agree with what Read0rD1e said. To me, the people I'm closes to matter more than the rest of the human race combined. I tend to put them at the top of my mental ranking, with me being a close second. Then everyone else.

[AlexTheSane]

It would depend greatly on the situation. I would need to know exactly who, what, etc, or at least more than "would I give my life for friends" or anything. I would do a lot for my friends, but I get the strong feeling that they would not want me to die for them.

I do have a strong maternal instinct and if I had children they would be on the top of the list of things I would give my life for.

[EJA]

I don't have kids, but they might surpass me in importance if/when I have some.

[Gwydion]

I think it's situational. If a gunmen had burst into a room where I was teaching, I most definatly hope Id charge that gun for the sake of my kids. I think I would have, but I've never been tested that far. I have been attacked and fought back. I have had a friend try to rape me while high and the only reason I didn't seriously damage him (knees and throat as I was trained to do), was that his girlfriend would have had to pay for it and she didn't deserve either hospital bills or funeral costs. In that moment, I didn't give a damn if I killed him for his own sake. I am pretty sure I have it in me to kill and risk being killed, given the events of my life and my response to near death experiences. I have talked down a man with a knife who wanted to stab my lover and himself. i have sold my body to save the life of a lover. I have faced down a motor cycle gang for the sake of someone I loved. I have been in real fights. Though I've charged a knife, Ive never charged a gun, still, I think I'd probably do it for a room full of unwashed middle schoolers.

[Silverblue]

Hmm, yeah, now that I think about it, I've called out strangers a few times and stood them down over the way they were hitting or abusing someone who couldn't defend themselves. I do it because in the past I've been powerless, and people watched me get badly damaged and laughed or said nothing. They let it happen. I don't want to live in a world where people let it happen, and I'm involved with enough groups to know there's a lot of outright torture that occurs out there because people let it. And you never know when it's going to be you they turn on next.

And also because once when I was attacked, by six guys (mmm, that takes real heroism, six large people trying to drag one small person into an alley) two punks ran screaming up the road and charged them and saw them off. T'was awesome. Punks, I salute you! They were swearing and stomping and fully into it.

I still remember those two dudes fondly. Hell yeah.

[Gwydion]

I'm glad you got your punk knights, SB.

[Jaimey]

hmm...good topic. For the most part, I have no problem using someone else to better my situation. Now, I don't go out of my way to do that, but if I have to decide between myself or them? I'll pick me every time. Right now, there are maybe two or three people that I wouldn't do that to...maybe. It would really depend on the situation. I'm also not close to anyone.

However, if I do meet that someone or have kids, those people will surpass me in importance. Mostly, I think survival is the most basic instinct, so I don't see anything wrong with self preservation. But going out of your way to hurt someone is different that protecting yourself.

For me though, there isn't anyone who would act differently towards me, so why should I do that for them? I've never had that sort of importance to anyone as far as I know, so I don't know what that's like.

[Recursive Paradox]

I tend to value my life over everyone but the people who I love and even then my life and the lives of the ones I love are given equal status in my eyes (instead of greater status for them). I tend to view people I don't know and have nothing emotionally invested in as being on a far lower level than anyone I would put effort into helping. In fact I tend to be an opportunist. I won't hesitate to take these people that I have no investment in and use them for my own gain.

Provided this usage doesn't violate my own personal deontological ethical principles (like I would never rape a person for my personal gain, such a thing violates a principle I feel should never be violated) I would not even feel guilt regarding it.

I do not act this way towards people I love, but those people are numbered very few.

But there are situations that do pull an emotional response from me, even if I don't know the person. If I saw a transwoman being beaten for instance, I would probably kill the assailants with whatever weapons I had at my disposal. So it isn't like I would walk by anyone in need and ignore them apathetically. But their need would have to have some sort of meaning to me and I would have to have reason to believe their need was valid.

I've never been in so much poverty that I've been homeless before so homelessness does not resonate with me in any way emotionally. When I see homeless people on the street I don't give them my change because I lack that resonance. And even if I had such an emotional resonance if I can't guarantee that said homeless person was going to use that money to help himself (like for food, not liquor or drugs) I wouldn't give then either.

I guess I'm just very cynical about people and feel like charitable actions on my part are a literal waste since in general people don't fix their lives and just continue to make the same mistakes. I also am not a trusting person in any way. And because my philosophical and religious path is a definite left hand path, I tend towards the idea that selfishness (in moderation) is a virtue.

[Jaimey]

Hmm. Now money is one thing that I can relate to because I have been poor (still am, really). If someone is begging, their life has to be pretty shitty, so I don't mind giving them money. If I imagine how bad off I would have to be to set aside my pride (and dear god, there's a lot of it) to beg...well, I can't imagine it, so I give what I can. And if they are lying about their situation or if they just use it on drugs/alcohol, well, then that's on their conscience, not mine. So I don't mind. I also wouldn't hesitate to protect someone who was being physically assaulted and I would not regret it if the assailant died in the process. It's all about survival. But I'll put my own happiness above others. The only exception might be my little brother, even though we can't be around each other for very long (he has a knack for pushing my buttons), because he is so much younger than me that I do have that parental love towards him. But he's the only one, including my parents, usually.

Although when I feel depressed, I'd be a lot more likely to give up my life/happiness for someone else...but that's another issue.

[Gwydion]

Compassion is a tenet of my religion and I try very hard to exercise it.

[biulaindzjh]

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