Your biggest challenge as a non-gendered person

[Kihata]

Aww sorry to hear your mom's trying to keep you from what you feel you are. I personally haven't told mine yet, I'm pretty sure I know what will happen... then again, I don't know.)

[Lexir]

My parents are supposed to be "queer-friendly", but my mum didn't react well to my asexuality, so meh. They'll probably just be weirded out if I tried to explain what neutrois or agender was.

[LeoNine]

Lexir, perhaps explaining what neutrois and agender are to your mum/parents would help them understand your asexuality? Just a thought.

[Kihata]

If queer-friendly = trans friendly (for neutrois who look at that as an option) it might.

[Kihata]

According to my mom, yeah, you have to go through counseling before you can get your boobs bigger to make sure you aren't doing it for the wrong reason or if there are underlying emotional issues you should fix first or whatever... But that's according to my mom, who'll say anything to stop me from transitioning and to avoid having to call me a boy.

Asked the question about psych referral for people seeking breast enlargement, and according to my college doctor (whom I saw yesterday), women don't really need one. They only need to sign a paper not holding the surgeon responsible for any damages/insatisfactions towards the bodily change. Yeah, terribly unfair.

[Kihata]

I know I've posted here before, but I'll post again.

My biggest fears as a non-binary person?

-Not being taken seriously as the non-binary that I am.
-Lack of proper gender-neutral pronouns in French, and trying to implement one potentially (or just getting 'Sharr' used as a pronoun instead)
-People associating Sharran as uniquely female. (of which it isn't, else I wouldn't have chosen it. It has masculine roots in hebrew and India. Though if I did transition with T, the name would better fit me imo. I still like it, regardless.) Sharran≠Sharon!!!
-Changing my body (hystro, top surgery, possibly T. It's something I've been considering, unlike a few months ago when I'd outright not want it.)
-NOT changing my body (Last few weeks I've been hating some parts of my body more than before, and it brings me to the question below)


Also, a question for others: How did knowing about non-binary and transitioning affect your 'view' on yourself? And by that, I mean, how did you feel about yourself before and after you've researched non-binary/transition. Were you disliking of your body before then hating of your body afterwards? How did the knowledge of such things alter your views? I would like to hear others' stories as I am looking back on my own path...

[ewd]

My biggest fear: that non-binary without surgery is somehow seen as not a choice, or option, or an invalid one by some people (been hurt by the trans community and others).

THat my work continues to stop me living in the way I want to is the biggest challenge (as in dress restrictions, conservative binary climate etc etc). I don't know if I can really go into detail here (happy to in PM), but it is not as easy as finding another job, because it is more of a vocation I have a passion for than a nine-to-five I can swap easily.

EDIT: To respond to Sharran, I have only recently found out that there is such a thing as non-binary identities, which is why I am here; to learn more.

But it for me was very freeing to know that there are others who don;t want to fit a box...before I could only conceptualise myself as a girl, yet I had something I didn't like about the idea of transitioning....to think that I can just be me and not let binary designations affect that seems great to me, in theory anyway.

[Kihata]

(((ewd))) You made me smile just by calling me Sharran hehehe I'm happy now. Thanks!

[_Xe_]

Hello, yeah although this topic was started in 2007, just in case the main poster is still seeking answers and stuff I thought I would post, and sorry if anyone stated anything like this already. But I saw this post while browsing the site and basically signed up to answer in case it could be of help.

I just have curiousity about this due to the fact that I have some huge fears, as a non-gendered person.
My fears include being unable to have my breasts removed and the social impact if I DO get my breasts removed. Any one have advice to overcome these fears?

As for the social impact, I had mine removed around 2 years ago and I was worried people would start asking me dumb questions that was far beyond their business, but so far no one has. In general the people I meet for the first time I doubt even notice.
The only thing I can say about overcoming the fear of that part at least is to stop and think what matters more to you, what you think and feel about yourself or what other people who you might not even know think or feel about you? For me I had little care already what others I barely know think of me, especially with something that is way more my own business then would ever be theirs. I always thought, real friends won't care, and so far I was right about that, at least with me.

I don't know how I'm gonna find anyone here. Even if I do, I don't know how I'm gonna pay for it. I HIGHLY doubt that the Universal Healthcare in Canada is gonna pay for me. If I can get PoeticVengeance and error up here, then they'll be paid for, but me? Odds are, I'll have to travel to find someone who will even listen to me. And I'm terrified of not being allowed to choose the surgeon *I* want. There are a lot of people who do top surgery whose results are NOT aesthetically pleasing, in my opinion. I know which surgeons I'd even consider, but I don't know if they'd even consider me, even WITH letters.

As for actually having it done, Canadian health care won't pay for it, or at least they did not for me, but that was actually a good thing, to get something like that covered you have to get letters (and I think right now it's not covered even with letters though I have not checked recently if that has changed) from psychiatrists and that can take over a year, IF they ever agree to giving you a letter let alone finding one that will take you as a patent. All I had to do was find a plastic surgeon who was willing, I went to a couple not to far and found one I felt comfortable with who was willing to do it the way I wanted it to be done. Though it did end up costing six thousand (Canadian).
Quick tip about seeking the right plastic surgeon, make sure they know what you are seeking and that they would be willing to do this before you make a consultation appointment. It tends to run around a hundred bucks just to go in and discuss things even if you don't choose to go with that particular surgeon. Also don't be dismayed if a few surgeons you first contact refuse, I had quite a few tell me all sorts of garbage before I found some that were fine with it.

[LeoNine]

Welcome, _Xe_! Good of you to join just to put in this post, hope you'll tell us more about yourself

[omelu]

on the fears thing: I'm terrified of needles and the idea of any surgery, so, I'm afraid that even if tomorrow the US realizes and accepts a wider gender reality...I'd be too scared to make the changes I would want. I'd love surgery if it was done with say a magic wand. But I'm most afraid of coming out to my family. I've never yet worked up the nerve to tell my mum I'm asexual, and I while my family as a whole is an accepting lot, I'm still afraid to try and explain myself to them. I don't actually care what the wider society thinks, if I could have my family's blessing and understanding, I could say eff you to the rest of the world quite happily. I am, possibly unwisely so, unperturbed by how people might react to me if I actually had surgery. But for me, since I'm an odd ball in other ways as well, most people who do not call for my head on a stake, accept me as a mess of oddities and contradictions, and while they don't think of any of them as meaning I am not gendered, they do at least not usually demand I conform.

on to:

How did knowing about non-binary and transitioning affect your 'view' on yourself? And by that, I mean, how did you feel about yourself before and after you've researched non-binary/transition. Were you disliking of your body before then hating of your body afterwards? How did the knowledge of such things alter your views?.

when I went through puberty I was very self conscious about it, I wanted to hide the changes, and, I think that's not odd even in some gendered people, but I never got used to it. But now that I know more about it, its not so much that I hate the parts of my body that are signifiers, I just feel more...justified? in wanting to change them. I've never "hated" my body, just been perplexed by it, uncomfortable in it, and inconvenienced by it.

other than a new set of words with which to refer to myself, nothing much has changed because I've always been out of step with the reality of the majority.

[Ryles]

How did knowing about non-binary and transitioning affect your 'view' on yourself? And by that, I mean, how did you feel about yourself before and after you've researched non-binary/transition. Were you disliking of your body before then hating of your body afterwards? How did the knowledge of such things alter your views? I would like to hear others' stories as I am looking back on my own path...

I know this was asked ages ago, but whatever.
Before looking into transgendered issues I was in a sea of seemingly non-caused, non-treatable depression and carefully constructed denial. I pretty much went through the motions and quietly hoped for death because I'm not capable of hurting or killing myself.

So from that standpoint, I didn't really hate my body or have as many obvious problems with it because I didn't know what the problem was and couldn't afford to acknowledge my body was as broken as it is because I didn't think I could fix it.

Yes, acknowledging non-binaries made my body less bearable because I was aware that I could do something about it and hated having my hands tied. But it also let me realize that life could be worth living, there was something I could do about my situation, etc- so in that respect it's good.

[bright_frost]

My fears are not being able to fix my body the way it should be and having to face my family after getting rid of my breasts. Ideally, I would like to be rid of my breasts and my uterus (and probably ovaries, too) because they really shouldn't be there in the first place. But I don't know if I could find a doctor who would do that, or if I could get approval or whatever for it, or how I would pay for it... So right now it seems like the best I can do is birth control to reduce my periods and a binder to flatten my chest.

I'm right there with all of you who've been really depressed over all of this. I've gotten that pretty bad too. Most recently I had a really bad experience with this birth control that was supposed to stop my periods altogether, but which instead made me bleed for 50 days straight. That in combination with being at home and therefore having to act like a girl all the time about pushed me over the edge. I was very nearly suicidal during all of that. I've since straightened out the whole birth control thing and started a count down to when I go back to university, so that's been a lot better. But I do have that fear about not being able to fix my body, because that most recent incident was after I'd already started working on dealing with the fact that I have a female body and a genderless identity and had actually been doing pretty well with that.

[scrapetape]

I don't think I can ever be "okay" with the female parts of my body. They don't look right, don't feel right... I've tried living as female outwardly with my true gender on the inside and it just doesn't work for me. It's just living a lie and I can't keep it up for more than a few days at a time. When I look in the mirror, I know exactly who I am and what I want to see and breasts are not a part of that. It might not even be so bad if I had small breasts... at least those would be much easier to flatten and hide. But no, I have somewhat big ones. I'm still in the process of losing weight, and I'm hoping that doing some lean muscle building will help, but they'll never just "go away." For now my only solution is to bind. Will I ever be able to afford surgery? I don't know... Even if I can afford it, will I be comfortable with taking the risks involved? I just don't know... But I'm not sure I can live the rest of my life this way, so maybe the risks are worth it... When it comes to the downstairs... ugh. I really really wish I could get rid of what's down there, but that's an even more serious issue than the top surgery... I might just have to live with it, but I'll never be "okay" with it.

Sometimes I wish I'd been born with a male body to start with, so that at least I wouldn't have to worry about breasts or hips or periods... I'd still have to worry about facial hair and a deep voice and maybe a bunch of other problems though, and I still wouldn't be happy with the basement equipment. I don't know which is easier to take care of, although I assume nullifying male genitals probably is less involved/risky than trying to get rid of an entire uterus/vagina setup. :\ Bleh.

When it comes to being "out" with other people, well, I haven't come out to anyone in real life yet (except my mom who's extremely cool about these things, I'm really lucky when it comes to that), I'm waiting until after I move. Online though, I get a lot of "oh, you're neutrois? So were you born male or female?" I really hate that. Don't people get that it's irrelevant? Neutrois is neutrois... Why do people always think it's their business what everyone else has, or used to have, in their pants?

I'm a little worried that people will always be trying to guess my birth sex and base their perceptions of me on that, instead of acknowledging my identity for what it is. It's hard enough to be an FtM or MtF but at least "male" and "female" are recognized by society...
Also, I feel like people, when I tell them I'm neutrois, will just think I'm crazy or lying just to get attention...

Sometimes it's hard even for me to accept myself. I've made a very bad habit of second-guessing myself and letting the pressure to just live as a female get to me... when that happens, I end up feeling like I'm floating around in space somewhere, I try to fit myself into the female gender somehow, it doesn't work... so I swing over to the other extreme, trying to fit myself into the male gender... back and forth back and forth until I finally accept that I want no part of either gender. It's just that I know it's going to be so difficult to live this way, I get scared and let myself get caught up in the cycle again...
Gladly though, I think I'm finally getting over it. One thing that really helps me, and which I mentioned above, is looking at myself in the mirror. It really snaps me back into reality and reminds me of who I really am, what I really want, and that all the difficulties in getting there will be worth it. I just can't keep pretending to be something I'm not for the rest of my life.
This board is a great outlet for me too. Reading everyone else's experiences and feedback, letting out my own frustrations... it's really helping me deal with this stuff.

I can't really think of anything else to say right now... except maybe "good luck" to you guys.

[Jaye]

My biggest fear is that I'll not be able to get the balance right between living as me, and trying to pretend to be mtf so that i can get access to surgery. Or that I won't be able to come up with a good enough reason to avoid having vaginaplasty without causing the surgeon/psychs to doubt I'm dysphoric enough. [i think this is the most realistic way of getting neutrois-ish surgery for me]

I have trouble accepting myself at times as well. Sometimes I try to be female just because I really want to be binary, and then go along until I manage to convince myself its better to be me than be miserable. I did the same in the past but trying to be male, though its female that I pass as more now, so now that's what I pretend to be.

[Mousers09]

I haven't really had much fear coming out as neutrois yet, because I haven't come out to anyone but my FtM boyfriend and my MtF roommate who, of course, understood as I already described my gender just never really had a word for it. My fear is that people will think I'm going through a phase, or simply, they won't believe me. Although most of my friends do describe themselves as LGBTQIA, to some extent or another, how will they react, I've already seen how transphobic one of my friends can get towards the trans community, but what about me, someone who's pretty much trans, but doesn't want to be viewed as either sex. I'm not sure how my parents will react, how my friends will, or anyone really at all... and they're not a lot of information or support out there for Neutrois from what I seen.