Musing on surgery

[not_quite_pie]

Even those of us who don't want surgery are aware of how freaking hard it is for neutrois people who do want rassignment surgery to get it.

And it's stupid.

Why is it, for example, that a woman can walk into a clinic and have her breasts enlarged, but people have to jump through hoops pretending to be FtM and take hormones they don't want to have the opportunity to get theirs taken away? Are our bodies our own or not?

It's quite easy to get breast or penis enlargements (whether they're effective surgeries is irrelevant), to get labia trims... because these things bring us closer to the ideals of feminine and masculine bodies, which makes them, naturally, something that everyone must want, right? And people who want to get away from their birth sex, well, that's harder but okay so long as they're the opposite gender, and doctors will do what they can to bring them closer, again, to the male or female cultural ideal. But to want something that doesn't fit one of those two ideals? Well, that must be wrong; those people must be confused about which one of the ideals they want to strive for, so there can't be any work done until they make up their mind. Our bodies are our own to modify... so long as society approves of the goal.

Sometimes I hate the world.

[Kihata]

There is always something to dislike about the world. And I totally agree about the easiness of enhancing one's visible gender rather than changing it to something non-conforming.

[dantelia]

Psychologically I am a neutrois, I want surgery to make me physically genderless--which will reflect who I am mentally, spiritually, emotionally.

Telling a doctor this will get me nowhere at best.

If I replace the word "neutrois" with "woman," and "genderless" with "female," then maybe I can get somewhere. And I did.

As it stands now, I am pretty much physically a hermaphrodite, which is exactly opposite of what I should be, yet somehow feels like the lesser of two evils. Or rather the least of four evils.

But this is still so very, very far from right. The whole thing is so upsetting.

I guess my only hope is to save up enough money to go to one of those wonderful Thai surgeons I imagine exist, who won't bat an eyelash at performing MtF (or MtN if possible) bottom surgery on me at the same time as FtM top surgery.

*sigh*

[Ryles]

Why is it, for example, that a woman can walk into a clinic and have her breasts enlarged, but people have to jump through hoops pretending to be FtM and take hormones they don't want to have the opportunity to get theirs taken away? Are our bodies our own or not?

There is a difference between a breast reduction and a mastectomy. There's also a big difference between a surgery that otherwise probably doesn't mess with how your system works and taking hormones that will make you develop like the opposite sex. It's relatively easy to undo a breast enlargement or reduction, compared to undoing a mastectomy. And you can't undo hormones very easily at all.

Same with the penis enlargement- if it goes badly, you can probably undo whatever it was. If you remove it entirely- there's no getting it back.

But you still could, fairly easily, get a pretty dang flat chest from a plastic surgeon via breast reduction. (or, the one I saw was willing to) It just wouldn't be an FtM top surgery flat chest.

[omelu]

I agree that with all the cosmetic surgery one can get, it seems that one should be able to peruse a genderless form as much as other peruse some kind of perfect gender form, though I also agree that it's a bit different to have some of the surgeries that can be reversed than others that cannot, still, people can undergo trans (an not trans) surgeries that are not particularly reversible, so it makes no sense for people who want to minimize their identifying characteristics to be refused. I also agree that our bodies are our own and we should have the same freedom to alter them as others.

the biggest problem is that with anything new and not well understood or well known, people are uncomfortable with it. Most people seem to have no reason to even consider that there is anything outside the binary, so when presented with the idea they reject it and do not want to accommodate it. We need to continue to gather, discuss, and educate people so that eventually gender will be a fluid multidimensional spectrum that people can find wherever is comfortable for them and do whatever they want toward becoming themselves.

[Ava206]

So just to confirm, you want to remove your breasts? But not go on any hormones?

[not_quite_pie]

You mean me? I don't want any surgery, I just thought it was unfair in general. It'd be nice to me more gender-ambiguous, but I don't have enough dysphoria to go under the knife.

[Psychopomp]

So just to confirm, you want to remove your breasts? But not go on any hormones?

Personally, I'd prefer to have some nonsurgical option to reduce breast size, you know, medication or something. Surgery is rather scary to me. As for hormones, they're unnecessary. I don't want to be one sex or the other and I'd rather stay where I am than deal with more of something I don't want.

[Ryles]

So just to confirm, you want to remove your breasts? But not go on any hormones?

If that was directed at me- yes. And I've got it set up so that I can as soon as I get the moneys for surgery. I may end up on hormones... but probably not. If I do, lowest dose possible. I know a few neutrois who took the lowest dose their doctor could prescribe for a few months every few years so that they get a little bit of non-feminizationw ithout it pushing over to masculinization.

[Ji Tusk]

Interesting to know. I never looked to hormones because I didn't want to have prominent sex characteristics of both, but an absence of both in my physical presentation. I didn't think about infrequent low doses.

[Ryles]

Interesting to know. I never looked to hormones because I didn't want to have prominent sex characteristics of both, but an absence of both in my physical presentation. I didn't think about infrequent low doses.

Yeah, I only thought about it because someone mentioned it. I also know someone else who has been on low doses for 6 months without any serious changes yet, too, so you could probably do low doses for a longer periods as well.
And it's apparently difficult if you've got an asshole for a doctor- I know a trans guy who wants low doses at first, and the doctor said "Maybe you aren't trans enough".