Neutrois is...?

[Ryles]

Since there's been a lot of disagreement- is neutrois a gender? A lot of people seem to think it isn't, it was originally defined as not being one, so as long as we're there- what would you call someone who's "neutrois" but actually has a gender?

[omelu]

I suppose that raises the question how do you define any gender? what constitutes a gender exactly? what is the state of not having one? The first definition of it I came across made it seem like the gender of not having a binary (or combination thereof) gender identity, sort of the gender of not having gender. Since then I've seen it put different ways.

I don't feel strongly that I either have or don't have a gender, that's one of the things I am still trying to figure out. So I'd love to see this explored more too.

[Ryles]

That's a good point. We don't really have a good definition of gender. Does identifying with a gender-related term mean you have a gender, and what does that say about people who don't feel genderless and don't really have a term they identify with?

Most people who don't have a gender, truly genderless people, don't care about gender. They don't feel dysphoria, they wouldn't feel dysphoria, and their only issue with changing genders now is having to resocialize- rather than "But I'm not a [gender], I'm [gender]!". It feels strange to say that someone who identifies with a (gender?) and can have dysphoria be in the same category as people who don't care about gender and don't identify as anything. I don't think they even identify as genderless- it's not really an identity so much as a descriptor for people who don't identify.

[omelu]

Most people who don't have a gender, truly genderless people, don't care about gender. They don't feel dysphoria, they wouldn't feel dysphoria, and their only issue with changing genders now is having to resocialize- rather than "But I'm not a [gender], I'm [gender]!". It feels strange to say that someone who identifies with a (gender?) and can have dysphoria be in the same category as people who don't care about gender and don't identify as anything. I don't think they even identify as genderless- it's not really an identity so much as a descriptor for people who don't identify.

hmmm, see, at least in my mind at the moment it makes sense for people who are genderless to be able to have dysphoria and strongly dislike being called any gender. It makes sense to me that one could reject both binary (and other) labels, not feel that they have gender, and be very uncomfortable being called by any gender (because they would all be wrong). I think it would be possible to feel "But I'm not [any gender], I don't have a gender!" and hate things that caused them to be identified as anything they are not. If that is merely your definition of neutrois, then the difference between neutrois and genderless is not that one is a gender and the other is a lack of gender but that neutrois is a state of lacking a gender AND having dysphoria whereas genderlessness is the state of having no gender and being more comfortable with various situations. But if it is a case of one being a gender and the other is the lack, than I would think it would be possible to be dysphoric, or comfortable, in either one depending on your circumstances.

If I have misunderstood something, I apologize, sorting out the difference between many of the nonbinary terms has been difficult for me.

[Chrysopoeia]

I always figured that Neutrois was for those of us non-gendered/agendered/genderless/what-have-you that feel that our bodies have to match how we see ourselves.

[Allosaurus2]

...is neutrois a gender?

It is for me. I'm uncomfortable with dysphoria being attached to the definition (no, seriously, acquaintances and total strangers don't need to know that I plan to physically transition one day) and it also seems like an unnecessary distinction to make. Other gender identities contain people who have dysphoria and people who don't have any dysphoria, so why make agender/neutrois separate identities because of it? I choose neutrois as my label because it sounds less like lacking a gender identity than agender does. I mean, I like my gender identity. I can't quite articulate what it is, but it's there. It's something, but this something is neither male nor female (I've tried both labels; neither fit). It's not a blend of the two and it doesn't change at all. Maybe in the future there will be a better term to describe it, but for now the closest I can get to it is neutral. I guess I could use neuter or neutral or neutral-gendered, and I often do when trying to explain it, but neutrois is a bit more obvious as a distinct term.

...at this rate, I might have to change labels, though. I seem to be in the minority so far.

[Ryles]

...at this rate, I might have to change labels, though. I seem to be in the minority so far.

I was thinking the same thing. I hate when people say neutrois isn't a gender, but maybe they're right and we need a different term.

[Kihata]

To me, neutrois is the third body. It is agendered, which to me is like the third gender. And the sad part is, I'm not 100% sure what defines third gender either :S

Just tossing my thought into the pool.

[omelu]

And the sad part is, I'm not 100% sure what defines third gender either

yeah, is "third gender" is a catch all for anyone who does not feel that their gender is male or female but something else? within it could everyone have their gender identity be whatever they felt it was, or, would there be some kind of set of generalizations or stereotypes like for male and female? I suppose really everyone does define their gender themselves, for example, what being a girl means to someone who identifies as a girl is externally defined by cultural roles and stereotypes, but internally defined by the person so that a girl could do or act like the culture defined a boy but still feel that she was a girl. In which case, being Neutrois could be anyone who felt they needed a third gender term, even if collectively neutrois individuals defined themselves in varied and sometimes contrary ways. Then, neutrois could be both a person who felt that it was a gender and those who felt they didn't exactly have a gender.

I think maybe I am thinking about this all wrong, LOL, but this is the problem I am having in understanding exactly what some of the non-binary terms mean.

[Ryles]

From wiki:

'Third gender' or 'third sex' refer to a gender category present in many indigenous societies of people who are considered neither completely male, nor completely female. It is a gender identity separate from 'men' and 'women,' of people considered to be the intermediate sex; in-betweens or neutrals.

It seems that third gender is basically non-binaries, third sex is basically intersexed. With what we know about gender and sex- we know that saying that all non-binaries are one gender or all intersexed people are one sex is equally incorrect. You can't look at the wide variety of intersexed conditions and say that they're all one sex any more than you can look at non-IS individuals and say that they're all one sex. The only reason we want to is because it's easier to say that everyone who isn't male or female are the same.

Third gender might work if it were more of an umbrella term- like intersexed- and allowed for a large variety of genders within, but it's singular.

It was also used as another way to say "gay". Men who like men were considered "third gender men" in the 1700s.