Sorry if this has been asked before...

[Ryles]

I've never really thought about multiple genders in the sense of (sorry if this is wrong) multiple people. I might be totally misinterpreting, but it sounds like the bigendered here have multiple personality in which the personalities are aware of each other.


Why I ask is that I'm not sure if I am. I've got voices, but most are characters that get louder and fainter depending on how much I'm involved in their stories at the time. But there's one that's sorta always been there. Like an imaginary friend that doesn't go away. That's how I saw him at first, really. But I don't recall doing that stupid "He's sitting there" and making people talk to thin air. It was just somebody else in my head. A few years ago, when I first started roleplaying, I wouldn't just have different characters- I'd make another account on forums with pretty much the other voice, and sometimes even bicker with "myself" on them.

A lot of times they really sound distinct, and we have different opinions. But it's like they're really protective of me, so it complicates things because I might have just conjured someone up that I can talk to and'll protect me no matter what. But if they are sort of their own person, and I'm not letting them out,it makes sense they'd be protective- you wouldn't want someone to destroy your house before you can really move in. Overall I'm just confused. And if they are their own person, well, I'm now feeling miserably like a jerk because it'd suck if I've just been kicking them back all these years.

I dunno, how do you tell if you are, if there is someone else, what do you do if there is, and am I just insane?

[Wesley_Lexi]

I'm bigendered, but I'm not sure how I could explain without the chance of people possibly misinterperating it... Maybe Mia and Marq can step in here.

[Ryles]

Misinterpreting can be problematic. And I am good at misinterpreting. :/ Don't suppose you'd want to give it a try? Or, sorry if this sounds horribly ignorant, maybe tell me when you first realized there's both Wes and Lex?

[Liv]

Jamie started a multiple forum here, -- why not ask there as well?

http://plurality.freeforums.org/index.php

I was intrigued to find we have a number of multiple people here. My understanding is some people call themselves bigender but feel they are always the same person but just sometimes masculine or sometimes feminine, and other people feel theyare two people , one who is male and one who is female. It is just prejudice that says being multiple is necessarily a disorder.

[Wesley_Lexi]

It is true that MPD assumptions kinda get on my nerves, but it's completely understandable.

When did I first realize there were two of us? Around a year ago when she started displaying her feminine aspects through me, and I didn't understand why I was acting that way, considering I'm a pretty masculine guy. Eventually her full personality surfaced. I assume I was subconsciously supressing her because, as a male, I was taught to act masculine, and shied away from femininity. It would explain though why I've always had the occasional feminine thoughts on subjects, and why I would sometimes disagree with myself and have favorite things and ideas that contrasted each other.

[Andra]

It is true that MPD assumptions kinda get on my nerves, but it's completely understandable.

(this is me posting without my moderator hat on)
Could we avoid referring to multiple systems as 'disordered' please (ie terms like MPD and DID). There are members of multiple systems posting on this forum who do not feel their existence is a disorder.

[Jamie]

Thanks Andra, that did make me uncomfortable, when there are so many stable people here on wig!

Otherwise Ryan, investigate
Talk to the people you can hear, and see what happnes

[Wesley_Lexi]

That was my point. I do get mildly offended by it.

[Jamie]

Ah, ok

[JC]

I believe the point that andra was making was there's been a bit of a trend noticed of some who take on the bigender identification seeking to distance themselves from other forms of multiplicity and grouping them under the MPD heading when the realities seem to point to the fact that they might not be so different from each other after all.

[Liv]

But Wes just said assumptions that people who have more than one personality have a disorder get on his nerves! He said it was understandable that people made those assumptions - but it is, as "healthy" multiplicity is not well-publicised

[Wesley_Lexi]

I'm sorry, I just realized the misinterperatation that was made. I didn't mean that bigendered people weren't disordered and other multiples were, I was saying that I, as a bigendered person, am often mistaken as having the disorder. I am in no way implying that other multiple systems do. My apologies.

See, I told you I would get misinterperated! lol

[Liv]

that's how I saw it, but I guess I can see how it could be taken the other way

[Kaimialana]

I've never really thought about multiple genders in the sense of (sorry if this is wrong) multiple people. I might be totally misinterpreting, but it sounds like the bigendered here have multiple personality in which the personalities are aware of each other.


Why I ask is that I'm not sure if I am. I've got voices, but most are characters that get louder and fainter depending on how much I'm involved in their stories at the time. But there's one that's sorta always been there. Like an imaginary friend that doesn't go away. That's how I saw him at first, really. But I don't recall doing that stupid "He's sitting there" and making people talk to thin air. It was just somebody else in my head. A few years ago, when I first started roleplaying, I wouldn't just have different characters- I'd make another account on forums with pretty much the other voice, and sometimes even bicker with "myself" on them.

A lot of times they really sound distinct, and we have different opinions. But it's like they're really protective of me, so it complicates things because I might have just conjured someone up that I can talk to and'll protect me no matter what. But if they are sort of their own person, and I'm not letting them out,it makes sense they'd be protective- you wouldn't want someone to destroy your house before you can really move in. Overall I'm just confused. And if they are their own person, well, I'm now feeling miserably like a jerk because it'd suck if I've just been kicking them back all these years.

I dunno, how do you tell if you are, if there is someone else, what do you do if there is, and am I just insane?

Maybe we should address what this poor person is saying here, rather than just misidentifying and redirecting?

Some of what you talk about sounds like soulbonding and definitely feel similar to what my system would describe as plural or median. If you are any of those things, no, you aren't insane. I strongly believe that insanity is the state of doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get different results. You're seeking answers, looking for solutions other than what you know immediately, and thats about as far from insane as you can get.

If they feel real to you, or more upfront, if they demand to be taken seriously, then they are real enough. What is reality? If its real to you then its real enough; you have to learn to live with these other entities in any case, or at least figure out what to do to deal with them. I had this talk once with our therapist, that if Alana wasn't real, then I wasn't real, not who I thought I was anyway. and I wasn't real, then I wasn't talking to my therapist, and this wasn't an appointment, then she certainly shouldn't be expecting any payment for her services. *grin*

Heres how I tell. When I start doubting my reality, my headmate Alana calls to me says, kaimi, I'm real, I'm here, and then Kai points out that they were here first, and therefore they have the right to say whos real and whos not. Then I laugh, realizing how ridiculous it is wondering about their reality when its standing there telling me I need to get the body food, or drawing amazing pictures, or enjoying playing around with insects when I would rather be looking at plants, or, most of all, taking over when I just can't handle things. I feel a fool to doubt their reality. For you, it might be more difficult, because it seems like those other entities are less present for you.

Now, if there is someone else there, if they want to be recognized as real, why not try talking to them about it?

~Kaimi

[Liv]

BTW it is not unusual for different people in a multiple system to be aware of each other

[Ryles]

It is true that MPD assumptions kinda get on my nerves, but it's completely understandable.

Sorry about that. I think of it like I think of GID (gender identity "disorder" aka transsexuality"). It's not a disorder because there's nothing wrong with being it and it's not like you want someone to hit you with a magic pill to make you "normal" or it seriously impedes life or whatever, but people label it that.

Otherwise Ryan, investigate
Talk to the people you can hear, and see what happnes

I do... but I don't know if anything's supposed to happen or if, despite that, I'm still repressing them (I got teased through most of childhood and am quite happy to avoid giving people more reason to pick on me) or what.

BTW it is not unusual for different people in a multiple system to be aware of each other

The only experience I've had with it is the media, and that's not entirely reliable. Actually, I can generally rely on it being unreliable
Thanks for letting me know, though. I wasn't sure. ^^;

[Ryles]

Sorry for double post, too long posts get on my nerves. If this is a giant problem, I can never do it agan. >_>

Maybe we should address what this poor person is saying here, rather than just misidentifying and redirecting?

Some of what you talk about sounds like soulbonding and definitely feel similar to what my system would describe as plural or median.

Soulbonding... new term that I don't know what is.
"A SoulBond is in one way an extension of your personality, and in another a separate personality that has "bonded" with yours"
Is that about right? It sounds like what a writer's go through with characters- they are a part of you, but they have their own personality. I think in Thomas Harris (Silence of the Lambs, et al) his characters actually hid things from him- and he was jealous of how much Hannibal could see into Clarice. ...not sure if that bit of information has anything to do with this.

If they feel real to you, or more upfront, if they demand to be taken seriously, then they are real enough.

That's the thing, I'm not sure if it is like that. It's not like they demand to be taken seriously, they just are in a way. It doesn't seem like they control motor functions much or anything, but they can still get me to do things (generally healthy things, they aren't telling me to kill anyone). So it's like... They're real enough, I sometimes have to catch myself from talking about them like real people, sometimes I wish they were a real person, but...I'm not sure, it all seems abstract and weird.

then she certainly shouldn't be expecting any payment for her services. *grin*

Nice.

Then I laugh, realizing how ridiculous it is wondering about their reality when its standing there telling me I need to get the body food, or drawing amazing pictures, or enjoying playing around with insects when I would rather be looking at plants, or, most of all, taking over when I just can't handle things.

That seems similar to the main one, the one that's been there since childhood. They don't really "take over" in the sense of taking over the controls and such, then I tend to just shut up and go on autopilot- but they get a lot louder then, generally forcing me to do something to at least cheer up temporarily so I can deal with things better.

I feel a fool to doubt their reality. For you, it might be more difficult, because it seems like those other entities are less present for you.

Some are, but I think those are more like soul-bonded characters. And I'm still new to that, so they tend to be weak just because I'm stilltrying to get better at developing characters that are solid in my mind. The main one is pretty much solidly there. There was one night when my mind went quiet, I could hear me and no one else- not even them- it was freaky.

Now, if there is someone else there, if they want to be recognized as real, why not try talking to them about it?

I think it's more that I want to find out. I mean, if they are real- it's their body, too, and I don't want to screw it up in a way they'd hate. I mean, they barely even like the name (Ryan) I've chosen for myself, and they'll probably get stuck with it as well. (Sorry, a bit tetchy at the idea of explaining that not only am I a boy in a girl's body, there's also a bunkmate.)

They seem hesitant to help with this, though. Don't see why it matters or something. I guess they're right, it'd take a lot for me to be comfortable to let them out anywhere but online, but it still don't seem fair.

[Kaimialana]

1. Soul bonds can be just as real as any other person in a plural system.

2. If they're real enough, treat them like people. Seems like they are real enough.



I'm gonna step out on a limb here again and suggest talking with them. Doesn't seem like they are going anywhere, so might as well get to know them.

As for transgenders in plurals systems, I'm a female bodied butch genderqueer stuck in a male body, with two headmates, one of which is female and the other is a fluid nonbinary.

Its not gonna hurt you to talk to them. Srsly. It might even help.

Doesn't make you crazy either.

~Kaimi

[Ryles]

I'm gonna step out on a limb here again and suggest talking with them. Doesn't seem like they are going anywhere, so might as well get to know them.

As for transgenders in plurals systems, I'm a female bodied butch genderqueer stuck in a male body, with two headmates, one of which is female and the other is a fluid nonbinary.

Its not gonna hurt you to talk to them. Srsly. It might even help.

Doesn't make you crazy either.

It feels crazy. The problem is just that I overthink things. It feels like they're separate, but I can't tell if it's just me talking to myself or not. Voices in my head all sound the same- like one actor doing different characters- which doesn't help. :/ And,yeah, seriously seems crazy sometimes. Like when Lex and Wes type in the same post I get what they're doing and all, but if I/we tried doing that I'd just feel like a nutcase.

Talking to them doesn't seem to help, they're reluctant to help.

When you say "female bodied in a male body", what do you mean? Like you'd prefer to be female even though you're not really female (since you said genderqueer) but your physical body is male?

[Kaimialana]

I'm gonna step out on a limb here again and suggest talking with them. Doesn't seem like they are going anywhere, so might as well get to know them.

As for transgenders in plurals systems, I'm a female bodied butch genderqueer stuck in a male body, with two headmates, one of which is female and the other is a fluid nonbinary.

Its not gonna hurt you to talk to them. Srsly. It might even help.

Doesn't make you crazy either.

It feels crazy. The problem is just that I overthink things. It feels like they're separate, but I can't tell if it's just me talking to myself or not. Voices in my head all sound the same- like one actor doing different characters- which doesn't help. :/ And,yeah, seriously seems crazy sometimes. Like when Lex and Wes type in the same post I get what they're doing and all, but if I/we tried doing that I'd just feel like a nutcase.

Talking to them doesn't seem to help, they're reluctant to help.

When you say "female bodied in a male body", what do you mean? Like you'd prefer to be female even though you're not really female (since you said genderqueer) but your physical body is male?

lol. I guess you expect that all plural systems just kinda always feel they are real and valid and have perfect separation and communication, and don't have bouts of worrying that its all fake. We ALL feel it, I do as much as any other person. Sometimes we can't tell each other appart, sometimes the voices sound the same, sometimes I doubt existence, sometimes I think I'm crazy. Oh, and I DO talk to myself on occasion as well, which makes things weirder.

Talking to them helps not because they will help you in any obvious way, but because learning about the people who share headspace with you helps you communicate and cooperate with them.

The whole female body in a male body comes down to what I look like in inner space compared to what the physical body looks like. I don't know if you have one or not, but we do.

~Kaimi